Discussion:
ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #364 - 9 msgs
y2
2004-02-05 03:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Salaams,

Your words were not taken out of context. I'm simple stating that ultimate
personal freedom appears to be not wanted even by yourself, Otherwise we
would all have every single option presented to us and we alone would make a
simple choice to participate in it or not. Perhaps the combining of men and
women is as distasteful to some imaams as the freedom for us to use drugs is
to you. Humbleness to the opinion of others is normally a good thing.

So then the issue becomes merely where do we draw what lines. In that
respect your opinion and my opinion is just as valid as any mullahs assuming
they're decently learned.

We are all mortal people capable of sin. Perhaps some of us are saints and
angels and can not see certain things as temptation, but I suspect most
humans are not of that calibre. And if God is truly merciful God would not
allow Heaven for only saints. Part of Islam IS avoiding temptation. That
is in itself a test. Perhaps a far greater test than not staring at
someone's behind. The trust in God's word as a way of life. For example,
throughout the Koran, it says we should not take non-muslims as friends
([3.28],[5.51]...). Now, I don't know about you, but I personally don't do
that. But I can definitely see that God is not an idiot. God understand
that most people will do as their friends do. So, God advises us to keep
muslims friends. Yet, this too: the act of taking a non-muslim friend
appears as an innocent and insignificant event.

I'm always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told Adam do not eat from
this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like the tree is poisoness or the
tree will affect your state of mind...God simply gave Adam a direct order.
Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree, and that was the original sin. A
simple insignificant innocent act of eating a fruit.

The orignal sin was not rape, murder, theft...It was disobeying a simple
insignificant order from God. But it was more than that wasn't it.

As to the hijab question. People are not perfect. We all sin and take the
faith to the best degree we can. Women who normally don't cover, but cover
up while praying may not be 100% consistent in their life, but then again
who is? They simply don't bother with it for 98% of the day. But when they
are engaged in an act of worship, they decide they should cover up. It's
the same with men whose pants extend beyond their ankles for most of the
day, but when they go pray...they roll them up.
--__--__--
Message: 6
ProgressiveMuslims digest, Vol 1 #362 - 8
msgs
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:54:39 +1100
Salaam,
I really dont like it when people take my words out of
context. To even
compare men and women praying together with pornography and
drug abuse is
stupid and proves nothing at all.
If a man sees standing near a woman at the mosque as a test -
then he is a
man of weak iman. It is only in segregated societies where
this kind of
innocent and insignificant event would mean anything at all.
For me, I would concentrate more in prayer if I knew I stood
as an equal
with my brothers before God.
On another topic, does anyone know of any women who dont wear
hijab while
praying? what is the source of this anyway. I can see a
case from hadith
for hijab all the time, but not much to justify hijab for prayer only.
Wa'salaam
Aisha
Caridad
2004-02-05 13:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Salaam aleikum,

I'm new here to some of you and am a returned member for those of you who
remember me from before. I just got back from living in Southern Africa (a
fabulous 9 months . . . I so wish I could just settle there), so have
returned to the list.
Post by y2
I'm always reminded of a the 'original sin'. God told Adam do not eat from
this tree. God did NOT give Adam a reason like the tree is poisoness or the
tree will affect your state of mind...God simply gave Adam a direct order.
Adam/Eve eventually ate from the tree, and that was the original sin. A
simple insignificant innocent act of eating a fruit.
The orignal sin was not rape, murder, theft...It was disobeying a simple
insignificant order from God. But it was more than that wasn't it.
Charity's comment:

I wanted to point out that original sin is actually a Christian theological
concept. Muslims believe that all people are born with innate goodness:
Fitrah. This theological concept says that ALL people are born muslim (with
a little 'm': submission to the Divine), with the innate nature to do good
and worship the One God, Allah. The theological concept of original sin
says that ALL people are born with this inherited original sin which
required the 'sacrifice' of Jesus to absolve, as well as the idea that
peoples' inherant nature is to choose to sin. There is NO concept of
original sin in Islam. We 'people' are responsible for our own actions, not
those of Adam, Eve, or any other predecesor.
I have to say this difference is one of the main reasons for my choosing to
be a Muslim. For me it makes alot more sense . . . I like to meet people
and give them the benefit of the doubt. In most cases I find that people
are genuine, not out to hurt me or others consciously, etc. It is more in
tune with my innate optimism. With the idea of original sin, it means that
I would meet new people with the idea that this person's innate choice will
be evil, doing bad, trying to hurt, etc. So for me, the Muslim concept of
Fitrah is constantly reinforced in my contemplation of and experience in
Creation.

I just wanted to make my voice heard :) he he he, and say hello to some of
the familiar faces here!

-Charity
Dawn Barnes-Schuster
2004-06-07 10:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Salaam all,

I will apologize ahead of time for this post of no real content, but I have
stopped receiving the mailings for some reason, and I wish to see if I can
even post to the list.

ws,
Dawn

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